On Her Majesty’s Secret...Circus? - Lucy Fleming reflects on her encounter with John le Carré’s Spymaster

By 1981, Lucy Fleming had survived Survivors and was already a successful star of stage and screen. How did the niece of James Bond creator Ian Fleming end up as a young ‘policeman’ in John le Carré’s clandestine world of moles and lamplighters?

She talks to Jonathan Moran about her time working for the Circus…

Jonathan Moran: Hi Lucy, thanks so much for agreeing to do this interview. Let’s start with how you came to be cast as Molly Meakin?

Lucy Fleming: I think it was because Simon Langton, the director, was a friend. He just asked me to do it. I don't remember going to read or anything like that so I think he just asked me to do it, which was nice.

JM: Molly is not a character who appears in the novel, although she does have a significant role in the previous book, The Honourable Schoolboy. She is introduced on screen as ‘Head of Research’ at the Circus. What information were you given about her backstory?

LF: Very little, really. I did talk to Simon Langton about the character and he said she's pretty enigmatic and we’re not quite sure how high up the ranking she is in the Circus. Barry Foster says when he introduces her ‘our policeman are getting younger every day’ so she’s probably not that senior. To be honest, there wasn’t a great deal of discussion about it. 

JM: Typically on this production there were a couple of days rehearsal prior to filming. What recollections do you have of rehearsing this scene?

LF: I don't believe I had any rehearsal. I'm pretty sure the other actors would have done but I don't remember it and I’m sure I would have done if I had.

Sir Alec Guinness, Barry Foster and Lucy Fleming during filming on Smiley's People

JM: What were your impressions of Sir Alec Guinness and what was it like working with him?

LF: I knew him a little bit because my mother, Celia Johnson, had worked with him quite a lot on A Captain’s Paradise. So I knew him socially. He was the sort of person who kept to himself really. He almost kept himself in character the whole time, so I didn't really talk to him a lot because of that. 

JM: You were also working with Barry Foster, Michael Byrne and Bill Patterson. What was that like? 

LF: I can remember chatting a lot with Barry, Michael and Bill as there was a lot of waiting around between takes. Bill Patterson was very jokey and I did a bit in a film called Love Sarah a few years ago, which Bill was in, and it was nice to meet up with him again. Jonathan Powell came in quite a lot and I can remember chatting to him. I remember the buildings as they were very dusty and I’m not sure if there was building work going on at the time. We were in offices on St James’s Square and I think I only filmed for a couple of days. Being there with those fantastic actors, who were so well known and so good, I felt really proud and pleased to be part of it, even in a small way.

JM: You filmed at 32/33 St James's Square (above) on the 14th, 16th and 17th August 1981. It is a really important scene and I know you've seen it again recently - what was that like?

LF: It was interesting watching it again as I realised poor Barry Foster has pages and pages of dialogue. Didn’t he do it well though. He was basically explaining the entire plot to everybody. 

JM: Barry Foster is wonderful as the sleazy and pompous Sir Saul Enderby. The way Enderby behaves with Molly during the scene may have been tolerated in the early 80s but it certainly wouldn’t be considered acceptable today. What are your thoughts about it now?

LF: I think, you know, I rather wish I'd had a chance to play it differently, but then in those days you just didn’t, you accepted it all. And I'm also not altogether sure that that isn't how Molly would have responded at that time. 

JM: I suspect that’s how Molly would have had to handle him to rise up in the organisation. 

LF: It would be very interesting to see how that scene would be written and played now, there would be much more reaction from my character I’m sure. 

JM: Anything else you recall about the filming?

LF: I have a memory of a shot from when we are watching the television in that scene. It was a reaction shot of me tilting my head as if to look at somebody upside down. I don’t think it’s in there though so maybe I dreamt it.

JM: Perhaps they filmed it and didn't use it which is a shame, as that would have been a nice little bit of humour to break up the scene.

LF: Yes, I thought it was quite funny.

JM: You mentioned earlier that the director, Simon Langton, was a friend. What was it like working with him?

LF: He was such a good director and it shows in this production. It’s interesting watching it again and of course it seems slow but the direction I think is brilliant and the tension he builds is wonderful. 

Director Simon Langton (left) and Production Manager Jeremy Silberston filming Smiley's People in Paris 16/07/1981

JM: Jonathan Powell describes Smiley's People perfectly as 'a single journey into darkness'. Simon Langton does a marvellous job pulling together all the strands of those seemingly unconnected events in different countries. He also succeeds in creating a bleak sense of foreboding which permeates the entire series. And Smiley's People was just one of his big successes, wasn’t’t it?

LF: When you think he also directed Rebecca, Thérèse Raquin, Pride and Prejudice and Mother Love. He’s such a sweet, gentle, charming man and so talented, I think. As a director, he would always suggest things rather than impose them. 

JM: I must admit his production of Pride and Prejudice will always be my favourite. We’re lucky that Pride and Prejudice and Smiley’s People can both be enjoyed in high definition today.

LF: I remember that he asked us to a preview screening of the first two episodes of Pride and Prejudice and it was wonderful. Everyone there was so touched and thrilled by it.

JM: Moving on to Survivors - I confess, I’m a fan! I’ve recently finished listening to all the Big Finish audio dramas which are amazing. What was it like revisiting the character of Jenny Richards after such a long time?

LF: It was extraordinary. It’s not often you get a part that goes on over fifty years. We had such fun making Survivors. It’s always so nice to meet up with Carolyn Seymour and Ian McCulloch again.

JM: Have the Big Finish audio dramas come to an end now?

LF: I think so - but they said that the last two times we came back and then actually they said we’re going to do some more. I think it probably is finished now though.

JM: I doubt anyone could have conceived that you’d be revisiting your characters and the world of Survivors all these years later.

LF: Yes, it has been an extraordinary experience. One thing I did notice is that the closing theme music for Survivors is quite similar to the closing credit music of Smiley's People.

JM: There is a similarity. Patrick Gowers composed the music for Smiley’s People but it is based on a hymn by Thomas Tallis. Let’s bring things up to date - you and your husband, Simon Williams, are currently touring a production called Posting Letters to the Moon. Can you tell me a bit about it?

LF: It’s my parent’s wartime letters read by me reading my mother and Simon reading my father. It touches on the filming of Brief Encounter, In Which We Serve and This Happy Breed. It’s funny and very touching and it’s about my mother living in this isolated house trying to bring up lots of evacuated children and in-between times going off filming with Noël Coward and David Lean and my father working in deception in India for Lord Wavell. We were in St Albans yesterday for Talking Pictures TV and we had a fantastic show. The audience absolutely loved it and of course they knew all the old actors and films that we talked about. 

JM: It's coming to my local theatre early next year and I can't wait to see it. Where can people find out about your new tour dates?

LF: The dates for our autumn tour will be on our Tickets and Tours page very soon.

JM: Thanks so much for your time Lucy, it has been lovely talking to you.

LF: It’s my pleasure.

Screen captures from Smiley’s People, Survivors and Pride and Prejudice (c) BBC